Testimony of Anne Harris from Hearing on Appeal of Order to sterilize Carrie Buck
11/18/1924
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This document comes from the case file for
Buck v. Bell, concerning the issue of involuntary sterilization. This statement of Evidence from Hearing on Appeal of Order to sterilize Carrie Buck includes testimony from Anne Harris, a nurse from Charlottesville, Virginia. Her testimony begins near the middle of page 51 of this filing.
In her testimony, Anne Harris describes Carrie Buck's mother Emma as a "feeble-minded" and a "socially inadequate person." Anne Harris also describes an incident involving Carrie passing notes in school of an "anti-social" character.
At 17 years old, Carrie Buck became pregnant (later reported to have been the result of rape, allegedly by a relative of her foster parents). Shortly after the birth of her child, her foster parents had her committed to the “Virginia Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded” on the grounds of feeble-mindedness, incorrigible behavior and promiscuity. Buck was declared mentally incompetent and her daughter was taken away from her.
Albert S. Priddy, the superintendent of the “Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded,” used Carrie to test the legality of Virginia’s involuntary sterilization law. John H. Bell replaced Priddy after his death in 1925.
On May 2, 1927, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the state’s statute allowing for the sterilization of people who were thought of as “unfit,” including the intellectually disabled. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. delivered the majority opinion of the Court, including: “It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind….Three generations of imbeciles are enough.” (This referenced the fact that Buck’s mother had been committed to a state institution, Buck’s diagnosis, and the assumption in the Court’s opinion that Buck’s children would be “socially inadequate.”)
Bell performed Buck’s sterilization on October 19, 1927. She was the first person involuntarily sterilized under Virginia’s Laws for the sterilization of persons considered “unfit” — an estimated 8,300 Virginians were sterilized under the state law from 1927 to 1972.
Show/Hide TranscriptTranscript
79*
*MRS. ANNE HARRIS
a witness of lawful age, having been first duly sworn, testified as fol-
lows:
Direct Examination
BY COL. STRODE:
Q Mrs. Harris, where do you live?
A Charlottesville, Va.
Q Are you engaged in any work there?
A Yes; sir, I was District Nurse there for eleven years.
Q You were District Nurse there for eleven years?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know Carrie Buck?
A Yes, sir.
Q The girl involved in this proceeding?
A Yes, sir.
Q How long have you known her?
A Well, I have known her for probably twelve years.
Q Do you know her mother, Emma Buck?
A Yes, sir.
Q How long have you known her?
A The same length of time.
Q What do you know about them, Mrs. Harris?
A Well, I know---
52 Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell
80*
MR. WHITEHEAD: (Interrupting) Wait a minute right there is what I think is one of the important features. I am not objecting right now, but I think I will ask later to strike that out because I think the question violates the constitutional right of the defendant.
A Well, I know that Emma Buck, Carrie Buck's mother, was on the charity list for a number of years, off and on--mostly on; that she was living in the worst neighborhoods, and that she was not able to, or would not, work and support her children, and that they were on the streets more or less.
Q Do you know any other of the children of Emma Buck besides Carrie?
A I know a small child, Doris---a girl.
Q Mrs. Harris, we want to make this as brief as possible, but at the same time, we do want the facts. You have given a very clear-cut and exceedingly short account of these people--Could not you elaborate it in any way? Cannot you tell us more facts about Emma and Carrie? What sort of people were they?
A Well, Emma was absolutely irresponsible. She did not have any idea of providing for herself and children. She was literally on the streets with her children, and the numerous charity organizations worked for her at different times, but all that was done for her was to give
her relief.
Q Can't you tell us what the trouble was with her?
*81
*A Well she didn't seem to be able to take care of herself. She would not work. She had these children, and she was not living with her children and she did not take care of them or herself.
Q You speak of her not living with her husband: did she continue to have children in spite of that fact?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were they her husband's children?
A No, sir, no question of them being her husband's.
Q Are you acquainted with the term used in the statute, "the socially inadequate person?"
A Yes, sir.
Q What is your idea of that term?
A A person who is not able to take care of themselves--who is irresponsible mentally.
Q Now, you say she is irresponsible mentally?
Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell 53
A Yes, she is not mentally able to do things or to judge for herself.
Q But physically able to bear children?
A Yes, sir, and to work for her living, but mentally unable to do so.
Q What eabout the character of her off-spring? I am speaking of Emma now? Do you know anything of the character of her offspring?
A Well, I don't know aynthing very definite about the
82*
children, except they don't seem to be able to do any more than their mother.
Q Well, that is the crux of this matter. Are they mentally normal children?
A No, sir, they are certainly not.
Q Emma herself was not normal, and they are not?
A No, sir.
Q We have not yet used the term "feeble-minded"; I was hoping you might get to it yourself. Are you acquainted with that term?
A Yes, sir.
Q I wish you would state whether or not Emma or any of her children were feeble-minded?
A I would say Emma had the mentality of a child of twelve.
Q That is the mother of these children?
A Yes, sir, and the children less than that--certainly of a child four or five years younger than her age.
Q Now, you said that you knew Doris?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was she a full sister of Carrie?
A I should not say, just from hearsay. I don't know definitely, but I should say not, from general reports.
Q What was her relationship to Carrie?
A Well, she was Carrie's half-sister; same mother but not the same father.
83*
*Q What do you know about Doris?
A Well, she was a stormy individual. She was a very violent child. She ruled her mother before she was placed in the children's home. She was with some people in the country, and they had a very stormy time with her, and they could not do anything with her. She had an ungovernable temper. She was incorrigable.
MR. WHITEHEAD: Without waiving my right to
move to strike out all of it, I ask two or three questions.
54 Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell
Cross Examination
BY MR. WHITEHEAD:
Q Mrs. Harris, you speak of Doris: Doris is a half-sister of the girl that is here, Carrie Buck?
A Yes, sir, supposed to be.
Q Now, of course you don't know whether she is a half-sister or not, do you?
A No, sir, I don't know who the child's father was.
Q The record that you have given of the mother, Emma Buck, that is made up on what you have heard, largely?
A No, sir, I had her on my list for years.
Q She was a married women?
A Yes, sir.
Q Her husband was not living with her?
84*
*A No, sir.
Q Is Carrie, the girl here, supposed to be his legitimate child?
A No, sir, she is illegitimate.
Q Was Carrie born while her mother was living with her husband?
A No, sir.
Q Then her husband must not have lived with her very long?
A No, sir.
Q Where did her husband live?
A In Charlottesville.
Q Of course you don't know whether he visited her?
A I could not say definitely, no.
Q Now, what are the--what about this girl, Carrie, herself--is there anything about her? Is she an incorrigible?
A I really know very little about Carrie after she left her mother. Before that time she was most too small.
Q She was taken by----
A (Interrupting) she was taken by Mr. and Mrs. Dobb.
Q So far as you know, you know nothing about her after the Dobbs took her?
A Except one time when she was in school, in the grammar grade, The Superintendent called me and said she was having trouble
25*
with Carrie. She told me that Carrie was writing notes, and that sort of thing, and asked what should she do about it.
Q Writing notes to boys, I suppose?
Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell 55
A Yes, sir.
Q Is writing notes to boys in school, nine or ten years old, considered anti-social?
A It depends on the character of the note.
Q Did you see the notes?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well if the note is not altogether proper, is it evidence of anti-social---
A For a child ten years old to write the notes she was writing,
I should say so.
Q Suppose the child had been sixteen years old, would it have been regarded as anti-social for writing that class of notes?
A I should say so, assuredly.
Q Well, then, there is nothing in the age of the child--I mean the actual age--I ask you, if the child had been sixteen years old, would it still have been anti-social?
A Well, if a girl of sixteen had written that kind of note, she ought to have been sent to Parnell--Isle of Hope.
Q Has it come under your observation in your official capacity, any of this girl's own acts?
86*
*A No, sir, not since the Dobbs took her.
Re-Direct Examination
BY COL. STRODE:
Q Do you know Lawrence Dudley?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know his relationship with Carrie?
A I think he is a distant cousin; I am not certain.
Q What do you know about Lawrence?
A Lawrence has given great trouble all of his life to his family. He has been incorrigible, and they have had trouble with him--he was incorrigible as a boy. He is a grown man now.
Q What is the trouble with him now?
A I don't know anything about him now, but as he was growing up and going to school, he was a great deal of trouble to his family and the school authorities.
Q Trouble in what way?
A I don't know. He generally misbehaved himself. I understand that his father had to replace things he had stolen, and he was objectionable in his behavior.
56 Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell
Q Did he have any police record?
A I think so, but I am not perfectly sure about that.
87*
*Re-Cross Examination
BY MR. WHITEHEAD:
Q What is your definition of an incorrigible child?
A Well, a boy or girl that won't stay at home and won't conform to the usual things that children conform to; going to school, and obedience to parents, and staying in off the street.
Q It does not necessarily mean they are immoral thieves?
A No, I don't think so. An incorrigible boy is not always a thief.
Q A boy that plays hookey from school, and is a thief---?
A (Interrupting) Is incorrigible.
(Witness stands aside.)This primary source comes from the Records of the Supreme Court of the United States.
Full Citation: Statement of Evidence from Hearing on Appeal of Order to sterilize Carrie Buck: Testimony of Anne Harris; 11/18/1924; Buck v. Bell (Case File #31681); Appellate Jurisdiction Case Files, 1792 - 2010; Records of the Supreme Court of the United States, Record Group 267; National Archives Building, Washington, DC. [Online Version, https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/testimony-anne-harris-buck-v-bell, April 23, 2024]