Testimony of John W. Hopkins from Hearing on Appeal of Order to sterilize Carrie Buck
11/18/1924
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This document comes from the case file for Buck v. Bell, concerning the issue of involuntary sterilization. This statement of Evidence from Hearing on Appeal of Order to sterilize Carrie Buck includes testimony from John W. Hopkins, Superintendent of the County Home in Albemarle County, Virginia. His testimony begins near the middle of page 60 of this filing.
In his testimony, John describes Roy Smith, a half-brother of Carrie Buck, as a "unusual boy" who was "mentally defective and foolish." He is also asked about Richard and Arthur Dudley, other relatives of Carrie Buck, who he describes "right peculiar" and "a little peculiar" respectively.
At 17 years old, Carrie Buck became pregnant (later reported to have been the result of rape, allegedly by a relative of her foster parents). Shortly after the birth of her child, her foster parents had her committed to the “Virginia Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded” on the grounds of feeble-mindedness, incorrigible behavior and promiscuity. Buck was declared mentally incompetent and her daughter was taken away from her.
Albert S. Priddy, the superintendent of the “Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded,” used Carrie to test the legality of Virginia’s involuntary sterilization law. John H. Bell replaced Priddy after his death in 1925.
On May 2, 1927, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the state’s statute allowing for the sterilization of people who were thought of as “unfit,” including the intellectually disabled. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. delivered the majority opinion of the Court, including: “It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind….Three generations of imbeciles are enough.” (This referenced the fact that Buck’s mother had been committed to a state institution, Buck’s diagnosis, and the assumption in the Court’s opinion that Buck’s children would be “socially inadequate.”)
Bell performed Buck’s sterilization on October 19, 1927. She was the first person involuntarily sterilized under Virginia’s Laws for the sterilization of persons considered “unfit” — an estimated 8,300 Virginians were sterilized under the state law from 1927 to 1972.
In his testimony, John describes Roy Smith, a half-brother of Carrie Buck, as a "unusual boy" who was "mentally defective and foolish." He is also asked about Richard and Arthur Dudley, other relatives of Carrie Buck, who he describes "right peculiar" and "a little peculiar" respectively.
At 17 years old, Carrie Buck became pregnant (later reported to have been the result of rape, allegedly by a relative of her foster parents). Shortly after the birth of her child, her foster parents had her committed to the “Virginia Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded” on the grounds of feeble-mindedness, incorrigible behavior and promiscuity. Buck was declared mentally incompetent and her daughter was taken away from her.
Albert S. Priddy, the superintendent of the “Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded,” used Carrie to test the legality of Virginia’s involuntary sterilization law. John H. Bell replaced Priddy after his death in 1925.
On May 2, 1927, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the state’s statute allowing for the sterilization of people who were thought of as “unfit,” including the intellectually disabled. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. delivered the majority opinion of the Court, including: “It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind….Three generations of imbeciles are enough.” (This referenced the fact that Buck’s mother had been committed to a state institution, Buck’s diagnosis, and the assumption in the Court’s opinion that Buck’s children would be “socially inadequate.”)
Bell performed Buck’s sterilization on October 19, 1927. She was the first person involuntarily sterilized under Virginia’s Laws for the sterilization of persons considered “unfit” — an estimated 8,300 Virginians were sterilized under the state law from 1927 to 1972.
Transcript
95**JOHN W. HOPKINS.
a witness of lawful age, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct Examination
BY COL. STRODE:
Q Mr. Hopkins, where do you live?
A I live at
Q In Albemarle County?
A Yes, sir.
Q Have you any official position in that county?
A I am Superintendent of the County Home.
Q How long have you been in that position?
A Eight years.
Q Do you know Roy Smith, a half-brother of Carrie Buck here?
A Yes, sir.
Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell 61
Q What do you know about him?
A Well, all I know, I have just seen him passing through the place back and forth. That is the extent of my acquaintance with him.
Q But you haven't told us anything yet that you know about him. You say you have seen him passing through the place: do you know anything about him?
A I don't know anything particular about him. I think he is rather an unusual boy.
Q In what way?
96*
*A He struck me as being right peculiar.
Q He is a peculiar boy?
A I think so.
Q Now, why can't you tell us what you know about him?
A Well, the only thing I know that could cause me to have an opinion about him at all is, he came through the place one day - he was going to school. He stopped and was waiting on the path, and I asked him who we was waiting for. He said he was waiting on some other children, they was going home to spend the night with him. I said: "Boy, those children have gone home," and he said, well, they was coming with him tomorrow night. He had been standing there waiting I suppose twenty or thirty minutes.
Q Did you tell Dr. Estbrook that you would consider that boy mentally defective and foolish?
A I think so, yes.
Q Then why don't yo tell us that, then, Mr. Hopkins. Are you averse to testifying?
A No, sir, but that is all I know about him.
Q Now, why do you consider him mentally defective?
A Well, that is the only thing I ever saw - -
Q Is that the only time you saw him?
A No, sir, I have seen him a number of times.
Q But in your opinion he is mentally defective?
97*
A Yes, sir, but I can't recall any other specific instance that would cause me to think so - not any particular thing.
Q Do you know Richard Dudley?
A Yes.
Q Do you know Carrie Buck?
A No, sir.
Q Do you know Emma Buck, the mother of Carrie?
A No, sir.
Q But you do know Richard-
62 Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell
A Dudley? Yes, sir.
Q What do you know about Richard Dudley?
A Well, I don't know very much about Mr. Dudley. He strikes me as being right peculiar, and that is all I do know about him, but as to why, I couldn't tell you any particular case at all.
Q Is he a man above, or below, the average intelligence?
A Well, I don't know, sir. I don't know whether I an capable of judging that.
Q How far does he live from you, Mr. Hopkins?
A About half a mile.
Q Lives there in the same neighborhood, and you don't know anything about him?
A I don't see him once six months.
Q Didn't you tell Dr. Estbrook yesterday-
98*
*A I did--I told him I thought so, but since considering that thing--.
Q It is natural that it would be embarrassing to you to testify about these people--being neighbors--.
A I know, but I don't mind telling you what I know to be a fact.
Q Do you know Richard's son, Arthur?
A Yes, sir.
Q What do you know about him?
A Well, he always struck me as being a little peculiar. Now, the only instance I can recall, I had an engine that wouldn't start, and he wanted to try to start it. I knew what was the matter with the engine, but I told him to go ahead if he wanted to do it, and he cranked and cranked, and could not start it, and he told me he had found out what was the matter with the engine; that it wasn't made right.
Q Do you consider him above or below average?
A Well, that question is exactly like the other, and I answer it the same way.
Q Yesterday you thought he was below, and today you don't know?
A Well, I don't know. That is right.
Cross Examination
BY MR. WHITEHEAD:
99*
*(CX, Whitehead)
Q Do you know the people pretty generally in that neighborhood in which this fellow, Richard Dudley, lives?
Carrie Buck vs. Dr. J. H. Bell 63
A Yes, sir.
Q How far does he live from your place?
A Half a mile.
Q How long have you lived there?
A Eight years.
Q Do you know the people generally around there pretty well, in that neighborhood?
A Yes, sir.
Q What does Richard Dudley do?
A Well, he has a farm, but he has been working on the section for the last two years, I think. I don't know just what he is doing now. I haven't seen him for six or eight months.
Q Has he, to your knowledge, ever been guilty of any theft, or anything of that sort?
A No, sir, never heard a word of harm about him in my life.
Q Now, according to your view, is he an average citizen in that neighborhood?
A Well, take it in that neighborhood, I believe he is.
Q Well, what is the matter with the neighborhood?
100*
*A I don't know.
Q Take it in the neighborhood--is that the neighborhood where all the Sprouses live?
A Yes, sir--not all of them.
Q Is that in the Ragged Mountain of Albemarle?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are the citizens in that neighborhood average citizens of Albemarle, mentally?
A I don't know. I don't think so.
(Witness stands aside.)
This primary source comes from the Records of the Supreme Court of the United States.
National Archives Identifier: 45637229
Full Citation: Statement of Evidence from Hearing on Appeal of Order to sterilize Carrie Buck: Testimony of John W. Hopkins; 11/18/1924; Buck v. Bell (Case File #31681); Appellate Jurisdiction Case Files, 1792 - 2010; Records of the Supreme Court of the United States, Record Group 267; National Archives Building, Washington, DC. [Online Version, https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/testimony-john-w-hopkins-buck-v-bell, March 29, 2024]Rights: Public Domain, Free of Known Copyright Restrictions. Learn more on our privacy and legal page.